The most fundamental premise of traditional Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is that reality is contingent upon God. This means that consciousness (God) has primacy over reality. What does primacy mean? It means that something comes first. In this case God comes first and then reality comes second. God created reality "Ex Nihilo" meaning 'out of nothing'. According to this assumption, God can change the laws of the universe and the laws of morality. This view assumes that God has complete omnipotence to do whatever He wants.
The Greek Pagan religions assumed the opposite. They believed that God was contingent upon reality. In their system of belief, reality has primacy over consciousness (the gods). The gods could only do their work within reality. They could not change the laws of the universe. In other words, they were not omnipotent but subject to reality.
Eastern religions in general assume both premises. They believe that God is the universe and that we are all part of God. God has primacy and reality has primacy. They generally accept contradictory premises.
Where does Mormon Theology fit in?
Mormons agree with the Greeks! Reality has primacy over consciousness. God is contintingent upon reality. This is why traditional Christianity thinks that Mormons worship a different God. It is because we do! The Mormon conception of God is very different from traditional Christianity (which was influenced by Platonism).
According to Mormon theology, there is no such thing as immaterial matter (D&C 131:7-8). Therefore God is made of matter. He cannot create or destroy matter. He cannot create or destroy intelligence. He can learn of what reality is like and work within the constraints of natural laws (D&C 93: 29–34). This belief assumes the primacy of reality over God.
The glory of God is intelligence (D&C 93:36). According to traditional Christianity, the glory of God is His power. Now if God really has all power to do whatever He wants, then intelligence and knowledge is meaningless. God would not have to know anything since He could just will things to be however He wishes. He would not need knowledge about gravity for instance since He could just will it to cease existing. In Mormon theology God's power comes from His intelligence. He has all power that can be had—in other words He can do whatever can be done within the constraints of eternal laws because He perfectly understands the eternal laws.
If we assume that consciousness has primacy over reality, then it follows that intelligences do not follow eternal unchanging laws but are laws unto themselves. This is the goal of Satan. He seeks not to be governed by law, but seeketh to become a law unto himself. In other words, he wants to choose how to act and he wants to choose the consequences of his actions (D&C 88:34-39). Satan did not seek to take away our agency by forcing us to conform to reality. He sought to take away our agency by taking away the consequences of choices. Therefore the fundamental falsehood of the great apostasy is the belief that God is a law unto himself—in other words, that God's nature is the same as what Satan desires but can never have.
The scriptures say that the great and abominable church was founded by Satan (1 Ne 13:6). That church is comprised of traditional Christianity, Islam, Judaism. Each rests on the premise that God is a law unto himself. All other beliefs rest on this premise. If you change this foundation—the rock of reality—then you pervert all other beliefs of the gospel. What more cunning thing could Satan do to cause confusion than to turn the fundamental premises of the true church upside down?
Nicely put. I know it pains most members of the church to be told that we are not Christians, but all that is really being said is that we do not believe in the basic premises of traditional Christianity, which is absolutely true. We hold ourselves to the restored standard of the worship of Christ.
ReplyDeleteIt seems useless to argue over our Christianity with those of other faiths when we don't even agree on the definition of the word.
Thanks for the comment.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. When people who have different core assumptions argue, they argue past each other. We should recognize our own premises and clearly make them visible at the beginning.
We really have a unique religion. If we weren't so different or if the divide really wasn't so wide, then people would have no reason to join the church.
There is persuasive power in being clear about how we are similar and about how we are so different from other religions.
Excellent points. We are indeed not creedal Christians. Not so sure that God is quite as limited as you suggest, however. We need to resist the tendency to limit God to the physical laws as we understand them.
ReplyDeleteFor example: Matter (particles) can be created from energy in particle accelerators by physicists. While this is hugely inefficient the way we do it, an intelligent God can probably convert mass to energy and vice versa to fulfill His plan. He may even be able to create both through laws we do not comprehend.
Similarly, just because we know of "intelligence" that is eternal doesn't mean it cannot be created.
God's understanding of the universe may be so complete that He van, in fact do anything He wants. Thus, His intelligence is the basis for His omnipotence.
Thanks for your comments.
ReplyDeleteI agree that we do not know how much God is bound by the laws that we currently understand. However, I do believe that God is bound by the laws of reality. As our science gets better, our understanding of what God can and cannot do will become more clear. I realize that this view is controversial and unorthodox, however I believe that scripture supports this philosophical view. For example God cannot create intelligences:
According to D&C 93:26, "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."
Also according to Joseph Smith, "I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the he power to create the spirit of man at all" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 354).
Ultimately, God cannot create ex nihilo. According to Joseph Smith, "You ask the learned doctors why they say the world was made out of nothing; and they will answer, 'Doesn't the Bible say He created the world?' And they infer, from the word create, that it must have been made out of nothing. Now, the word create came from the word baurau which does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence, we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos—chaotic matter, which is element, and in which dwells all the glory. Element had an existence from the time he had. The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and re-organized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning, and can have no end."
Therefore, I do not believe that God can do anything that He wants. That would make God a law unto himself. It would lead to logical impossibilities (such as the somewhat annoying question of whether God can make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it.) Despite versus such as Luke 18:27, the scriptures are clear that there are many things that are impossible for God. For example, it is impossible to be saved in ignorance; it is impossible to please God without faith. And it was impossible for God to bring about our exaltation without the Atonement.
Granted: God is bound by reality.
ReplyDeleteGranted: He can't create souls (Whatever a Soul is). "Man was in the beginning with God" after all.
Granted: He can't create ex nihilo.
I think your views are in line with the scriptures and Joseph's. Not that unorthodox at all.
I was just pointing out a specific limitation you'd mentioned which seemed to me too limiting a view of God. Matter and energy are interchangeable for us, surely much more so for God. (Not to mention regular matter and the "more pure or refined" matter that makes up our spirits - Can one become the other, through a Fall, perhaps?).
:)
As for this: """For example God cannot create intelligences: According to D&C 93:26, "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."""
I know this question (intelligence vs. intelligences, and are either equal to "the soul") has been debated by Church leaders over the years.
He can't create "intelligence" singular ("the light of truth"). Not necessarily "intelligences" plural. Abraham did see the "intelligences that were organized before the world was." Organized by whom? I don't pretend to know.
I probably should have rephrased the "anything He wants" bit. I don't see God wanting to do the ridiculous or the impossible. And I don't see Him chaffing against the restrictions of reality, wondering how to work within the rules to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."
I expect that the "rules" which bind God are few and basic ("A, B, And C are eternal, A can become D and E, Right and Wrong, Light and Dark, etc.), and, of course, fully understood by Him.
I could have been more clear.
ReplyDeleteI took the fact that matter and energy are interchangeable for granted appealing to the first law of thermodynamics and e=mc^2.
If it was possible to bring about our salvation without going through the Atonement, God would have done it. I think this is clear from Jesus' plea to "take this cup from me." Therefore, God is constrained by universal restrictions. I just do not know whether those laws are many and complex or few and basic.